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Milo's Mum
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Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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Location: Devon

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi! We own a 5 year old fawn dog (neutered) called Milo Cool . He is such a cool dog and a joy to own - everyone's favourite soppy cuddly hairy monster! He has responded well to all aspects of his training apart from one! He will chase certain other dogs (not all). If the dog approaches and seems to be his equal he will greet and sniff and then move on with me like a fabulously well trained example! However, if the dog shown any signs of being scared or uncertain, he immediately senses this and exploits it to the full. He will often push out his chest, bark very rudely right in their face and then chase if it runs off. The more it runs, the more he chases (totally ignoring me) and it looks like he's trying to round it up. He barks and "worries" the dog, nipping at it's rear. The only way I can get him under control is to get the other person to stop their dog running, then Milo will stop running and I can retrieve him. Once they stop running, he will either stand over them wagging his tail and looking extremely pleased with himself or sit next to it as though on guard. I'm guessing this behaviour comes from the breed's very strong herding instinct, but it's embarrassing when he's so obviously out of control, and when he's perfectly behaved in every other situations, for example - he will bark when someone comes to the door, but he will sit and wait at the door when we open it and only greet when we tell him it's ok, he'll be last out of the door, he'll wait until told to get out of the car, he will wait until we tell him he can have his meal, he will let my kids do anything with him - taking food away, moving him etc. This is his only frustrating fault. I wondered if your members could suggest any training tips. I do sometimes try keeping him on the lead to avoid any chances of it happening. Even then, sometimes he will lunge at other dogs which show signs of either challenging or over submissive behaviour if I'm not quick enough to pre-empt it. Sometimes, we go out, meet other dogs, and I have no problems at all - I just can't figure it out!

Woud=ld be grateful if anyone can come up with some suggestions.....!

Cheers!
Lindsey Confused
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Jo Hawkins
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:48 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Lindsey,

This is exactly what Ralph does when we go out. Its always when the other dog shows any sign of being unsure and he becomes a monster! Twisted Evil I don't understand what makes him do it either, when as you say your children can do anything with him, my 18 month old daughter can and has taken his food away from him.
Ralph tried it the other day with my friends dog Max. Max however won't take any mess from anything however big and hairy, and just barked/growled back. The look of surprise of Ralph's face was funny! Rolling Eyes
I don't think he means to be aggressive, he just gets a bit pushy!
Someone on here is bound to have some great advice.

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Caddywaddy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sorry, no advice forthcoming from Berlin. Olive's unfortunately the kind that gets chased, she's only once done the chasing when she plucked up a gargantuan amount of courage to chase a chihuahua.
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veronique
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Caddywaddy wrote:
Sorry, no advice forthcoming from Berlin. Olive's unfortunately the kind that gets chased, she's only once done the chasing when she plucked up a gargantuan amount of courage to chase a chihuahua.

that the spirit Olive start small Laughing she is so cute Cool

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Roz & Tim
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Oh, Olive. Bless. (will refrain from observing that chihuahuas deserve to be chased... Laughing )

Sorry Lindsey, no advice from me either, but Nero does exactly the same thing as Milo. So you're not on you own!

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Milo's Mum
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks for the replies so far .... I'll keep waiting for more. At least it's comforting to know I'm not the only one with this problem!!

Lindsey
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jean eckford
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

My two as well !
Jean
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Brenda Wilkinson
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi
I teach all my dogs to drop down on command as a game while out walking free with big rewards (on soft surfaces like grass or sand) this they will do at a distance then I run to them and give big rewards. I find this works when the start running round playing and go selectively deaf Wink In the past this has proved useful, ie. years ago when Bernard broke his stay Embarassed along with other dogs while doing the obedience competition at the BA show, as they chased throught the show ring Shocked having great fun on returning to the obedience ring at high speed I shouted down and he did giving everyone chance to get their dogs and resume the stay Smile If you watch your dogs and the dog he is aproaching body language you can usually spot the ones that he is going to react to, given practice, which will enable you to be a step ahead of him and either put his lead on get a treat or toy ready to distract him. Of cause if he is being really agressive I wouldn't let him off lead round other dogs. Hope this helps.
Good Luck

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Rick
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Is it a male dog thing? I've had 3 bitches in the past and none were ever as badly behaved as our current dogs.
I would also appreciate any advice on this.
I've just come back cold wet and covered in sand from an embarrassing trip to the beach. Beowulf has always suffered from selective deafness and fancies a good chase. He's a devil when sheep or deer are close. He knows they are there even if I dont. Last autumn he ran the length of a hockey pitch after somehow spotting a stray sheep on the other side of hedge. Fortunately the ditch and barbed wire flumaxed him until I got there.
Breka previously has just barked and growled at other dogs. Today though a smaller dog wandered over to say hello and my two just leaped at him - no barking they just jumped forward and gave chase. The other dog ran off yelping in fright and I lost all control over B&B. They were hunting the poor thing basically. I was horrified that they would decide that the other dog was a fox and what they would do to it. Beowulf likes to chase and I wasnt too worried about him but I could see Breka straining to grab it. In the end I had to physically dive on Breka and hold him on the ground until the mad light left his eyes. The other owners rescued their dog picked him up and left giving me dirty looks. I got the lead on Breka's harness and stood up but he saw Beowulf go after another dog, leaped forward and snapped the damn lead (there must have been a nick in the webbing strap). This time I caught Bewoulf and this curtailed Breka's excitement.
With Beowulf on the lead I was able to control both dogs by voice since Breka didnt have anyone to lead him astray and I headed back. Then a bloddy horse and rider showed up cantering along. With Beowulf under firm control Breka stopped after about 3 calls - but he wanted to give chase.
It seems to be partly a pack thing then. If I can control Beowulf then Breka is ok but like I say none of our previous bitches were like this. In fact it was like they were within an invisible wall they romped and played but never went further then say 50m from us - and recall was fine (unless it was a dead carcass to roll in or something edible).
Actually I just needed to get this off my chest and rant a bit. So thanks for listening. The obvious answer is I shouldnt let them off the lead and I need to train them better. What a foul morning
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lulu&lexi's mum
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Rick

You have my heartfelt sympathy - I've had a few walks like that myself! Our worst was when Lulu escaped from the garden and we couldn't catch her until she'd finished rounding up an entire herd of cows Embarassed Embarassed . Fortunately the farmer is our neighbour, otherwise it could have got quite nasty!

No, it isn't a male dog thing - our girl, Lulu is terrible for selective deafness and running off for a good play if the mood takes her, whereas our boy Ross is generally as good as gold! He can be aggressive to other dogs, but it seems like nervousness (we've recently rehomed him) so I'm hoping it goes as he settles in.

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Brenda Wilkinson
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

From my observations boys or girls can be as bad as each other made worse when they have each other for back up. With mine I do lots of on lead road work for exercise, free running is a treat, I pick my time and place to allow them freedom were I can see what is coming. I think a lot of problems in parks etc are caused by under exercised dogs being allowed to run wild for 10 - 15 minutes then back in the car and home. We donít know what the dogs are saying to each other what vibes they are giving off, if dogs are regularly walked on a set patch they can become territorial over their patch, leave regular dogs alone whoís scent is on that patch and see off any strangers. There is a Yorky Terrier on our regular run who is only the size of Vernonís head that gladly chases Vernon off every time we see him. Once he has had his say that it is his field all is fine and everyone gets on but imagine the day he takes on a big dog that will not submit. Itís all down to watching your dogís reactions to others and watching the doggy body language and if you watch and learn most of these problems can be avoided. Mine are not perfect by any means and they can wind each other up, but remain calm and in control and any trouble should be short lived. Rick a suggestion for you is to let your two off one at a time and make sure you have a strong lead on them, and take them out separately sometimes to give some one to one training.

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Milo's Mum
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks Bernie for your sound advice - poor Rick - sounds like you had an absolute nightmare! You just feel so utterly helpless and stupid trying to catch a dog that keeps pounding past you 'fixed' on giving chase to some terrified victim. I think, like Bernie suggests, I wouldn't let them both off at the same time - it's bad enough with just one doing this. I also prefer to go somewhere where I can see for a good distance so that if there is something approaching which I think may be a problem, then I have time to get him on the lead. As I said before, though, the majority of the time we pass eachother without an incident and Milo will just ignore the other dog. Once they get this 'fixed' over-attentive expression on their faces and the body language shows they are extremely alert, it's really hard to snap them out of it. I've tried Cesar Milan's 'tshsst' and sharp snatch on the lead but he reacts to me for a millisecond then returns to fixing on the dog. With Milo, I don't think it's agression, I think it's maybe his own insecurity maybe feeling threatened by another dog or feeling superior and then the herding instinct kicks in. I may be wrong here and I'm open to being corrected. He also seems to recact more when he's on the lead.

Fired with a new enthusiasm to try Bernie's training tip of practicing 'down' at a distance, I went out yesterday and bought some tasty looking pocket-sized treats to make Milo think it really would be a treat to do some training with me, only to return, offer him a sample and he turned his nose up! Will try out on our walk this afternoon, but will probably have to resort to small pieces of sausage or similar now!

Thanks for the feedback,
Cheers!
Lindsey
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Rick
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes indeed. I've calmed down somewhat from the embarassment of yesterday.
A couple of stiff G&T's in the afternoon and we all had a good talk about it. I talked, Breka rolled on his back and spread his legs (I'll have to work out a way of teaching him to do that on command. Should be an amusing pub trick) and Beowulf climbed on a chair and looked out the window. I think they were listening.
Since Breka has his bad leg that was the first time I have taken them both to the beach together for some months and I was not expecting him to give chase - he's never done it before (he is only 10 months so hasnt had much opportunity).
As such, Milos mum is correct. Until they are better behaved there will only be one dog off at a time if other animals are present, ie Breka since he does (usually) do as he is told. I was shocked he broke the lead though, it was an inch webbing strap - it must have been damaged.
Under-exercised. Actually thats a fair possibility at the moment. Given the chance they will run and run and run. Again one of the issues we have had is actually trying to limit Breka's exercise due to his elbow problem. He is limited in the free run time he has and this has probably effected Beowulfs level of exercise as well.
Misty and Merry (our last 2) were absolute angels - never had this problem - although...... thinking back Misty did have a tendency to bite overfamiliar strangers and Merry was a superb food thief. Our youngest child (probably about 4 or 5)decided one day that because we wouldnt let him watch some tv programme or other he would run away. Off you go we said, take plenty of food and a sleeping bag. As such he prepared a large pack of marmite sandwiches and went upstairs looking for a sleeping bag. When he came back he found Merry had scoffed all his grub off the kitchen table and he couldnt be bothered to make it all again so he decided to stay after all. Jolly good we said.
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gail
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Oh Rick,
Your post as made me laugh out load, I have conversations with Roxy about her behaviour - there's just no reasoning with them!!
And a dog with the taste for marmite, that's something else.
But I do think the stubbon streak, and selective deafness is something Roxy has too, and we have to work all the time with her to get her to follow instructions, and not go chasing other dogs. Mind she's always kept well clear of Boxers - dogs not pants.
Gail and Roxy
Keep the sense of humour and perspective.
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