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Brion's Mrs
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:42 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Recent threads encourage me to ask what, for me, is really my million dollar question at the moment. Now that Brion is trusting me to protect him, what to do when other dogs threaten him?
I owe a great deal to a dog walking friend who is by profession a police lady and is well skilled in coping with aggressive behaviour from both humans and dogs. She has strong views about what constitutes a dog being in control in a public place, and what doesn't. On a few occasions when out walking together we have met a couple of young male Akitas who have bounced up to Brion, completely ignoring their lady owner. My friend has moved smartly in front of me and Brion and by her body language discouraged them from approaching closer. She has said at the same time to the dogs' owner in a firm but calm voice, 'Please call your dogs because my friend's dog is on a lead and can be aggressive.' (She admits that this is now a bit unfair to Brion but reckons that the lady needs as strong a warning as possible.) Said lady's dogs pay little attention to her but do back off at the presence of my friend.
My friend is not a fan of Akitas, saying that they have a strong prey drive and should not be out in a potential pack situation if their owner isn't well in charge. She has advised me to carry an air squirting can and says that I would be well in my rights to squirt towards the dogs' faces if I should encounter them, or any others like them, on my own and find that they won't back off.
Needless to say, I don't normally carry the can (though I did buy one) but, prompted by another slightly troubling incident the other day, when two large leggy Staffy types appeared seemingly out of nowhere and charged up to Brion, I am now wondering if I really should. With the Staffies, when Brion was off lead and unmuzzled, all was well but I don't think I handled it particularly well but actually don't really know what I could have done.
Brion swung quickly round to face them but, good boy, didn't say anything rude (probably didn't dare!). As is now my habit, I called him and snapped on his lead. However, they then came bouncing round his face (not aggressively fortunately), so I didn't at all know what to do and just turned his face away from them, saying, 'Gently' as usual. At that point their owner got a grip and called them away, and they went. Phew!
I really would appreciate views as to what people would suggest in situations like that, and whether, really, I should be more prepared for what could be a much less pleasant incident.
Amanda
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vicky-jasmine
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:21 am Reply with quoteBack to top

My dad had a simasilar incident when walking out with jasmine and dexter, it was early morning and he was walking around our housing estate, he noticed a house with its back gate wide open onto the pavement and standing in that gate was a very agressive guarding german sheppard, dad stopped at first to asses the situation he had dexter a very large and strong boy who doesnt particularly enjoy german sheppards attention and jasmime young pup who was very scared. he turned a round to walk off thinking it would stay om the property but it didnt and charged, so he turned to face it and it stopped, he noticed its bark was slightly high pitched and recognised its body language was slightly unsure so dad shouted at the top of his voice and charged back at it..... And it ran back in the garden. At this point the stupid owner poked her head out the upstairs window and said opps I left the gate. open (not sorry my dog nearly atac ked you or anything!! Dad left before the woman came out as i proly wsnt the best idea to stick around.

Another situation a friend of mine came across was he was out in the park with his girls when a dig came along and tried to mount one, shes not spayed so he stepped in and scruffed it before it had a chance to have its way with her, he sent it off and the owner ( who was miles away) came charging over unleasing a torrent of abuse on him for'touching' her dog.

The problem is with todays society is too many people do not have dog 'common sense'. There are too many out of control dogs running around out there that are a threat to our ppets. Personally I dont think we can avoid these situation but I think being aware of the situation and considering ur options is a good idea. I think you should never turn ur back and walk away from an agressive dog but if u feel u can slowly back away facing the dog not making eye contact and ur head bowed down or if its a nervous agression puff ur chest up stand infront of ur dog with a strong stance and hold ur ground (easyer said than done though) allway make eye contact with the owner and let it be known ur not happy about the situation I think on some cases a shout over to the owner can cause a charge same with the air spray, I would say the only time I would use it was if the dog actually made contact with jasmine and i would only spray it yo stop the frenzy.

Im not an expert so please becarefull if you take my advice I dobt want anyone to get hurt. Ive had dogs all my 22 yrs so I can spot body language and I watch alot of dog behaviour programes on tv, dog wisperer is the best for explaining body language and the reasons behind certain behaviours.

Appologies for the jumbled up writing and spelking errors, my phone is playing up so I cant see what I write untill after or go bk and correct it!
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Brion's Mrs
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Reading dog language. Many thanks. Lots is just down to good old experience, confidence and common sense, isn't it? Thanks for replying, though, I do appreciate learning about other's far greater experience than mine. Amanda
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David T
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:22 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Norbert was snapped at/bitten by a minature schnauzer and a jack russell when he was about 6 months old and is now very wary of small dogs now. He also has a very long memory and will spot early on if a dog approaching has rushed or barked at him in the past. His behaviour when off the lead is completely different to when he is on the lead. When off, he is quite laid back and will try to play with other dogs. If he is physically threatened, then he will retaliate and floor any dog with his paw. Embarassed When on the lead, he assumes the role of protector ( to us) and will lunge/try to slip his collar and deal with the other dog but only if that dog had rushed/snapped at him before. With strange dogs or ones he knows as "friends", then he is fine. What we now tend to do with him if we see any dog approaching is either to make him sit and talk to him when it is a potential aggressor or walk slowly on, again talking all the time, but with us between him and the other dog. He seems to take comfort from the fact that we are calm and "at peace". Smile

p.s. Will have to double check his docs but I think Brion is his dad!
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Net & Zebedee
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think the only thing you can do is try and walk away with your dog. If not turn their head away or move them and break the eye contact and confrontation if you think things are getting unpleasant so that it doesn't escalate. I usually put myself between the dogs but that's because our issues have always been little dogs having a go a Zeb. The only time its been a larger dog James got between them and ended up with a bite from the other dog so maybe that's not the best approach.

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Brenda Wilkinson
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Best approach is too be aware of the dogs body language and watch for signs of aggression in approaching dogs, be aware of blind spots on your walk where you cannot see any dogs approaching and keep your dog close. I have found stepping forward at the appraoching dog and say NO GO AWAY very firmly is good to deter the dog and this usually sends them on their way, stay calm and in control (easier said than done I know) turn you dog so to break the eye contact as has been said and walk away, I usually do a fast walk towards the owner if their dog will not go to them to get them to their dog faster and hopefully back on the lead. Air cans and the like are OK if your dog is used to them if not you could frighted your dog making the situation worse. My Bernard was set on by two Border Collies when he was young and he never forgot as soon as he saw a black and white dog he went on defence mode it took alot of time and understanding to train him not to react.

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Brion's Mrs
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

i wonder if Norbert is really Brion's son. If so, he has fathered a fine-sounding upstanding fellow. Brion only sired two litters and I have heard from about four of his offsprings' new families. The only thing that he seems to have in common with several of them is a very sensitive nature (though I know that is typical Briard). I've only ever known one other Briard well, and Brion is certainly much the gentler and more people responsive of the two.
Amanda
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David T
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Just checked his pedigree and Gilcoru Brion D'Abrie is his dad. Is that Brion? Norbert's colouring is similar to Brion's.
Norbert is very "people friendly" and has been described by his groomer as the most laid-back dog she has ever come across. So much so, that even though she will not look after "entire dogs", she makes an exception for Norbert. Very Happy
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Brion's Mrs
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes, that's him. How lovely to hear! I think that Brion is basically very laid back. The only thing that really gets him nowadays is if anyone other than immediate family attempt to take him out of our house. We had to give up with a very nice dog walker because he took to growling at her and when a kind friend tried to walk him for me in the summer when I'd been ill, he went as far as it took for him to hear the front door shut and then he firmly 'herded' her home, persistently turning so sharply in front of her that she was nearly taken out at the knees each time and had no option but to return home, in fits of laughter at his determination!
If you've followed some of my posts, we did have a lot of problems with him in his first year with us but we like to think now that that those can be put down to our inexperience in handling an ex stud dog of 4 who'd never lived away from the Gilcoru kennel, and his lack of early socialisation for the kind of life that we were asking him to lead.
As I say how lovely to know that he's produced such a smashing dog. I'll tell him!
Amanda
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David T
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Norbert's groomer has a small "bitser" dog called Dougie and he is about 9 inches high and a few pounds. Norbert was always wary of Dougie when he went for his bath. We once left him with his groomer for a couple of nights and were pleased to hear that there had been no problems. The groomer did let slip that she had found Dougie swinging from Norbert's ear, teeth firmly clamped. From that moment, they were best pals and Norbert always sleeps on Dougies' bed when he stays! Confused Laid back or wimp?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:46 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Enya used to be really good with small dogs when we first had her but a nasty experience with a shiatsu and an owner who couldn't control it has put her on the defensive now with little dogs and she will, if given half the chance, lunge at them. I do pull her close in and talk to her telling her 'No' firmly.

What I could not believe was this dogs owners reply to us was, 'well it's natural for a dog to growl and bark'. I tried to point out to her that it was a good job Enya did not react the same as her little dog taking into account the size of Enya and the size of her shiatsu. I then asked her who she thought would come off worst. She did have the decency to go a little red but she still didn't apologise for her behaviour of not controlling her dog and not putting the nasty little thing on a lead.

Mind you Enya is more than likely to just whop him with her right paw, it really should be listed as a lethal weapon. hee hee.
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Brion's Mrs
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes, both our Briards have been very handy (or should is be pawy?!) with both front right and left paws. Bertie used his for extremely nifty dribbling with a football too. Clever Enya because I think that a clout with a paw is less upsetting to owners of lesser beasts than a lift up in the mouth, as Brion once did to a cheeky puppy! Amanda
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Linda and Jasper
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:35 am Reply with quoteBack to top

This subject of lose dogs realy anoys me. other peole asume that oh my dog is very good off the lead. that is okay if the owner is by them but most dogs seem to be on thier own..........
but hey!! just a minet. they cannot know what the dog will do when confronted with a different chalenge on the day. most of the dogs we see are friendly........
It is scarey to see a dog runnig towards you,what to do.
When i used to take jasper out on my own i was always on the look out for lose dogs. we did see one and i turned around went back the other way and hid behind someones hedge cowering like a coward,jasper was wondering what allthe fuss was about.
Ready to go on our way i turned around and there was an elderley lady in the window smiling at me.
red faced i waved and left her garden.
Embarassed

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:42 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I do dislike the assumption that other dog owners can take when your dog is on the lead, especially as they are big dogs. People seem to assume your dog must be aggressive because they are on the lead rather than under control.
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