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lizannesley
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Anyone else watch the program about feeding your dog? Channel 5, 9pm, Thursday. I'm sure you can watch on demand, etc. very interesting. Would love to hear others' impression.
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Carol & Dillon
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Watching Silent Witness so I'm taping it, to watch tomorrow. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Didn't learn anything I didn't already know. Raw is best in my opinion!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I completely missed it. I will have to watch it on demand over the weekend.
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Ruth Richardson
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:39 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Recorded it! I'll watch it some time over the weekend. I'm interested to see what they say. Hugo has had some extremely loose motions on and off since moving onto senior food. We had already put him onto Symply as it's meant to be good for skin and I thought it would stop his dandruff. It's helped, but not stopped it, so he may go back to James Well-beloved which suited his tum. I'm going to cut out his daily cereal hedgehogs first to see if it's them causing the problem (although he's eaten these for a long time).
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Yvonne Holland
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

watched it but was disapointed as I never learnt anything really, I am a fairly new convert to raw and boy the difference in my oldest girl is remarkable .

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Carol & Dillon
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This is worth reading

http://www.poochandmutt.com/the-truth-about-pet-food/
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maxnick
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks for the link Carol. It was intersesting reading.
I have actually given our dogs some of their treats & they love them.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I am interested and have just got my copy of Honey's Natural Feeding handbook for dogs. I need to think it through. In principle I am all for lots of bones and raw food and I know lots of you Briard gang swear by such, and also local dog owning friends of mine. It takes time, though, to work it into ordinary life, if you see what I mean. I think I will go and see a very good local butcher and maybe talk it through with him. The problem for me is finding a regular supply that is both affordable and storable - I don't have a big freezer. But where there's a will there's a way.
Amanda
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lizannesley
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I know what you mean about freezer space....I had to buy a small under the counter freezer. Now at last we have room in the other refrigerator for "our" food! But it was definitely worth it.
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John Geekie
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:16 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Just seen the thread and thought to mention Christopher Day's booklet on FEEDING DOGS - the natual way it is old - 1997 - and I guess some will have/seen it. It still makes interesting reading. the need for the meat to be organic in source ( at that time chicken was the main meat which was available organically ) He pointed out the freedom from salmonella, a killer for dogs and cats.
Anyway if interested the ISBN is
ISBN 0 9520071 6 9
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Ruth Richardson
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:56 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Finally got round to watching it! Very interesting, especially after recent posts about whether we owners could be doing something wrong where the health of our briards is concerned.
I guess I was hoping they would tell me which is the best commercial dog food, but they didn't! As a vegetarian, I couldn't cope with handling raw meat and bones, although I'm not yet convinced that feeding Hugo a meat-free diet is in his best interests. I really want a complete food that has a high percentage of meat, but is free of grain and low in fat and sugar. If anyone has come across this perfect product, please let me know!
Hugo's poo continues to be healthy and diarrhoea-free since we stopped the cereal hedgehogs, so that's also interesting, given that they are meant to be a healthy option (and our vet sells them!) He still has dandruff along his back (Hugo, not the vet!) and, although it doesn't bother him, it is unpleasant to touch (it's a bit waxy) and I'm convinced it is caused by his diet. We have tried different foods with higher levels of linoleic acid, Yumega oil etc. but nothing has solved the problem yet.
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Deborah Mansi (DEBUET)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:38 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Ruth

For a cometely organic and grain free food I can recommend either Applaws or Cannagans. We feed Cannagans and Mireille loves it. The only problem is that it is not cheap but I believe that if it is better for them then I am all for it. You don't have to feed as much because it is so concentrated.

Hope this is helpful.

Debbie

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Interestingly, having been raw feeding for almost 20 years, I have just switched Standard Poodle Jake to dried food. We started raw and then went to home cooked and have arrived at dried. With whatever I have fed him in the past, he starts off ok and then gradually gets increasing and recurring bouts of diarrhoea. I'm trying dried food now really just to see if he settles on it. So far so good but I do know that if this doesn't work for him then the problem is with him and not with the food I give him.
I think you have to look at your dog and if he/she is healthy, poos are small and firm, (as opposed to great, long soft sausages), skin is good and teeth are healthy then you are doing the right thing!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks, Debbie, I'll have a look at both of them.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

When I looked on line, Applaws seemed slightly cheaper than Canagans. I liked the look of Lily's Kitchen dog food, but it is just so expensive. On Amazon, a regular subscription for a 12.5kg bag of Applaws senior is 52.56 (a one-off buy is 55.33). I usually get Hugo's food delivered by our local family-run pet-shop. I rang and told him about my research on line and he said the retail price is 59, but he will match the 55, as it's actually easier to get than the Symply because his regular suppliers stock it. Can't say fairer than that. I know his overheads will be more than an online supplier and I do like to support local firms. He takes my payment over the phone and delivers for free at a time that suits me, so it's really convenient.
Applaws senior is 75% chicken and it's grain-free, so it definitely sounds worth a try. Thanks again, Debbie.
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Deborah Mansi (DEBUET)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Ruth

Let me know how you get on.

Debbie

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:33 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I will do, Debbie, but it will be a while. He's still got a sack of Symply to go and when he gets halfway down, I'm going to introduce the Applaws slowly. Then it will probably be a couple of months before I know whether it is making any difference. I hope to be able to reintroduce the hedgehogs then, once he's on a high-protein diet. I can't imagine why a cereal-based chew would upset his digestive system other than by causing an imbalance, e.g. more cereal on top of all of that grain in the food - roughage overload! So watch this space!
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Carol & Dillon
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:26 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Debbie

We are going to try Dillon on Canagans, we have had a small bag put by at the local garden centre and picking it this morning. I'll let you know how "fussy eater" gets on with it. Laughing

Carol
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kathy morgan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

You could also try 'Green dog food' they do a cereal free variety. Zeta has been on it for 2/3 years now after trying all the supposedly good ones. He would eat them for a while then go on hunger strike but this one suits him fine. He cannot tolerate chicken variety of any thing and gets the awful runs so I stick to lamb or fish - have also tried a small sample of Canagan and it was also fine but I don't know the break down of this one.

Green dog food have a good website.

p.s (another expensive one I am afraid) but as previously said you don't have to feed so much, and nothing is wasted.

Kathy and Zeta
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Brion's Mrs
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:39 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, I am very grateful to this discussion because it has made me think lots, read a bit, look carefully at our dogs and talk to our vet, who is about the most uncommercial vet on earth (often refuses to charge) and I am clearly no expert but I have, I must admit, had a bit of a worry about how we feed our dogs, wanting like everyone to do the best for them but also quite shaken by the cost of cereal free dog feeding and I have now satisfied myself that our dogs are doing OK as they are, but they definitely could have a more interesting and better-for-the-teeth diet and so I have now had a most satisfying trip to our very good local dog-loving butcher, and returned with two huge meaty marrow bones, some raw chicken carcases (which just happened to be lying on the chopping board) and an oxtail. I have shopped just like my mother used to, discussing the best frugal deals with the butcher, and returned to spend a happy day yesterday making oxtail stew for the family, and then stripping it (sorry to go into detail vegetarians) so that I could freeze some - for easy use when everyone gets back from work next week - and separating out t he grotty bits for the dogs, and keeping back a lovely big bowl of jellified stock, for us and the dogs.
Our dogs do look very well on their normal Chappie and Chudleys diet. Their coats are shining, their noses are black and wet and they are full of energy, and their poos are healthy looking, which does seem to bear out our vet's view that dogs are omniverous and although some are allergic to certain things most aren't and if the dogs appear healthy then don't worry. I also found online vets saying the same thing and giving scientific evidence for such but obviously I am no scientist to really weigh that.
However, I do think it must be to the good to re-think how we feed them, and ourselves for that matter, and I have really enjoyed the process of using cheap cuts (the butcher also sold me a bag of chicken legs and wings) and using them fully, and making sure that the dogs get a look in too. So many thanks folks for getting me thinking, and please don't think I'm wanting to disagree with the general tenor of this thread, which I understand to be discussing healthy feeding for our dogs, because I know, having just agonised, what an emotive issue it is.
Everything I have read says that different dogs do thrive on different foods, just like us, and ours are certainly, as I type, giving woofs of approval to raw meaty bones!
Amanda
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Ruth Richardson
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

This vegetarian thinks if you are going to kill an animal to eat it, you should be prepared to use as much as of it as possible, and so approves of your waste-not-want-not approach, Amanda! As for the diet, your dogs sound in tip-top condition, and so I would change nothing! I'm always reluctant to start messing around with their food when they clearly enjoy it and are in good health. I'm only doing it to see if the high-carb diet is affecting Hugo in some way and causing his flaky skin. I'll let you all know in a few months whether it has made any difference!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well Amanda and Ruth I agree with you both to a point. I can understand the 'if the dog is thriving leave well alone' school of thought. But I do believe that if you look at the ingredients of some of the cheaper dog foods long term health problems MAY, just may result from long term feeding. The best bet for ensuring the long term health of your dog may or may not be raw feeding, cereal free feeding or whatever, there is insufficient evidence to be sure. But there is evidence that some of the ingredients listed in some foods particularly cheap ones are harmful in the long term.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I am really not sure where I stand on this and just phrasing anything carefully because I know just from myself that the whole issue of feeding the family, in which I include the dogs, is a most emotive issue!
Several friends for whom I have much respect are convinced that real meat is the answer hence my interest in this thread, especially as Brion has been eating poo (and is actually very thin, though healthy looking at the moment). I just mentioned my vet's view because I also have a lot of respect for her, and I must admit that having read the Honey's Dog Food book I didn't find it convincing. I therefore was thrilled to improve the dogs' and our diet in one go and contribute to keeping our local butcher going, but I don't really know the most of it.
I like the fact that Chudleys is full of kelp and seaweed and things, but that may be just good marketing, and it isn't expensive! Chappie is very cheap and I dread to think what is in it but our vet says that many dogs can digest it who can't digest anything else and our old Pooch (Battersea dog) survived until nearly 18 on a diet of just Chappie and didn't need any medication (other than Propalin for a leaky bladder due to having been spayed) even at the ripe old age of 17, so it clearly didn't do her any harm.
I actually am rather in sympathy with Ruth because I do try to avoid eating meat that I know has been unkindly raised and killed, I also have an allotment and eke it out with an organic veg box. See what a purist I am?! I aim for us all to eat as well and cheaply as possible, eating veg in season, cheap but happy meat etc. That rather breaks down with the dogs' food. My sons love to tease me by suggesting that Chappie, and even chicken carcasses that a friend used to procure for me, were undoubtedly unhappy chickens, and I fear they are right!!
And like all of us I have to try to make the money go round. . .
So I am an avid reader of threads like this, keen to get more expert opinions. . . that's all. Amanda
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Ruth Richardson
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think you adopt a balanced approach, Amanda. My husband would eat meat if it came from Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall and he thought the animal had suffered no cruelty. I just can't get my head round killing something that is in good health, although I appreciate the animals wouldn't be there at all if not bred for meat and I don't harp on at non-veggies. Isn't Chappie recommended by a lot of vets? I thought it was meant to be good for dogs?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

http://www.whichdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/0175/chappie-adult-complete

An interesting site. I find it highly suspicious that unlike most foods I have looked at there is no obvious website for Chappie with clearly set out ingredients.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

kathy morgan wrote:
You could also try 'Green dog food' they do a cereal free variety. Zeta has been on it for 2/3 years now after trying all the supposedly good ones. He would eat them for a while then go on hunger strike but this one suits him fine. He cannot tolerate chicken variety of any thing and gets the awful runs so I stick to lamb or fish - have also tried a small sample of Canagan and it was also fine but I don't know the break down of this one.

Green dog food have a good website.

p.s (another expensive one I am afraid) but as previously said you don't have to feed so much, and nothing is wasted.

Kathy and Zeta



We have sent for some samples of Greens to try Dillon on. Very Happy


This has the break down of Canagan Chicken

http://www.canagan.co.uk/chicken.html
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:41 am Reply with quoteBack to top

My girl (and all our other dogs) has been fed Chappie dry throughout her life and is a very fit and bouncy 8 year old. I avoid raw meat because of Neospora caninum which is vertically transmitted (mother to pups) and causes paralysis. It also transmits to cattle and causes spontaneous abortions and is incurable. Salmonella is also an issue - I picked up salmonella poisoning from pigs ear treats almost 6 months ago. I lost 2 stone I couldn't afford to lose and I still have trouble eating a normal size meal.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes, I saw our vet yesterday and she listed a whole pile of reasons why she didn't like the raw food diet. We all have to do what we feel is best for our dogs. Hugo is on his last bag of Symply and so will soon be having the Applaws mixed in.
Hugo was very brave at the vet's. We discovered a lump on his chin yesterday lunchtime and so took him in later that afternoon. She took 3 needle biopsies and has sent them off to the lab. We'll get the results in a week. I'm obviously hoping it's not cancer and it's not growing, so that he doesn't need surgery. She gave us antibiotic cream as well, but I don't think it's sore, as he didn't flinch when she took the samples. I suspect it's a tumour, benign or otherwise. If it turns out to be cancer, then hopefully we have caught it early. It's to be expected that he's going to start having the odd niggle now and then as he's nearly 8, but I couldn't bear to lose him just yet. I can't help worrying slightly with so many briards lost recently. I keep on having to remind myself that Oscar had a cancerous mole removed when he was 9 and went on to live for 2 more years.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

We have put Dillon on Green dog food, we've tried the Lamb and Rice and the Trout Salmon and Veg, he seem to love it (well he does for at the moment anyway) it seems to suit his tummy.

http://www.greendogfood.co.uk/
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm sure Hugo is going to like the Applaws. He can't stop nudging the bag, so it must smell good! His lump turned out to be benign (what a relief). It's a histiocytoma and they usually disappear all by themselves, so surgery is unlikely to be necessary (even more relief!) The vet says she has never seen one not disappear in 3-4 weeks, although online it says it can take 2-3 months.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

So pleased Hugo's lump turned out to be ok! what a worry for you.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well it's been nearly 2 months since we put Dillon onto Green Dog Food and he loves it, a lovely clean bowl after each meal which rarely happened on anything else we have tried him on.

He has just had his yearly MOT and the vet was very pleased with the way he looks, not over weight or anything.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:48 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes, Hugo's now fully on Applaws, but it's still too soon to see if his skin has improved or not. He's recently had a bath, so he's flake-free at the minute. I'll just have to wait and see if it comes back. As for the hedgehogs, every time we give him one, he still has sloppy poo the next day. It may be a coincidence and we just happen to give him one on days when he's scavenged something dodgy, so we will keep on trying them now and then, but it may be that they just don't agree with him for some reason.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi Ruth. Sometimes Zizou can get like that through sheer excitement or nerves. If hubby goes away, he'll get a bit of a dodgy belly. If I go out for a ladies walk with my Rottie, he won't eat. But when I go out with him, without her....she'll eat. I'm off to have a look at Applaws on the net. I like to know what's out there. Thanks.
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